The System Doesn't Work
Since John still has my camera from taking it on his Santa Monica trip, this will be my second blog post ever without a picutre.
This weekend John and I went to the Chateau Ste. Michelle winery, which is about 2-3 miles from our house. The place was pretty hoppin' with people taking tours and just generally enjoying the peaceful, well-kept grounds of the winery. John and I took a tour with our friends Santu and Anup, ended with a little wine tasting, bought tickets for a couple of their outdoor concerts this summer, and then signed up for their wine club. We have been wanting to sign up for the wine club for quite a while, since it's a good deal, the wine is tasty (we'll be getting 4 bottles per quarter), and after being a member for ~1.5 years you get free tickets to the outdoor concert the winery puts on for its "Connoisseur Club". John and I had the privilege of attending one of these concerts a couple years ago, and it was great fun. Anup's friend Matt, who used to work with Anup in IT at ImageX, had his sister's four tickets since she and her husband were out of town. A couple of Matt's friends cancelled at the last minute, so Anup invited us to go and we had a great time. Great music, picnic in the grass, and free wine made for a good combination.
Now, as it turns out, Matt's sister is married to a guy named Brad, who used to work with me in Sales at ImageX. Brad was kind of a golden boy, because he got deals with a lot of big accounts. Nobody in ops liked him and some argued that the way he got the accounts was by giving away the farm, but he seemed like a nice enough guy to me. A couple weeks ago I had an interview for a consulting position at Accenture, and I learned that my interviewer went to business school with Brad. And as chance would have it, we ran into Brad and his family at the winery last weekend. (Small world, huh?) They were picking up their wine shipment for the quarter and doing the free tastings of the selections that are offered. Brad said that he's been doing really well at a start-up, where he earns purely a percentage of sales. Reportedly, sales went from nothing to $35 million while Brad was there, so he is doing quite well right now. Brad was invited to the opportunity by a guy named Denis, who used to be the director of sales at ImageX.
In the car on the way home I related this story to John, and I mentioned the fact that I have a bad taste in my mouth about Denis because he is the person who prevented me from getting an outside sales job at ImageX. To give you some background info, I had come from outside sales at a different company and taken an inside sales position at ImageX because my outside experience was in a different industry. The verbal agreement was that I would move to outside sales once I had proven myself in inside sales. Well, suffice to say that I had more than proven myself in inside sales, but when I sat down with Denis to explain why I was ready for the transition, he made up some BS about how all outside salespeople at ImageX now have to have 20 years of print experience. I was furious. Fortunately for me, Denis "resigned" shortly thereafter and my new manager, Bob, put me on the outside sales team. My first quarter as an account manager, I was vindicated as the only salesperson to make quota.
Anyway, the whole situation between Brad and Denis is great. I'm glad it has worked out for both of them. But in my mind, it also highlights one of the ways that women are at a disadvantage in the business world. No doubt, Brad and Denis formed a tight bond at ImageX, spending lots of time together and having fun doing it. But culturally, this could not happen between a woman and a man. If I told John that I was going out golfing on a consistent basis with another man, it would seem very suspicious. While men could schedule a standing Tuesday night dinner appointment to talk about work stuff, or even drinks at the bar every Friday night, a woman and a man could not schedule those types of "bonding times" without people thinking they were having an affair. And with most positions of power in companies being held by men, this system is perpetuated in such a way that men stay at the top. (Because as we all know, business (and promotion) gets done because of relationships.)
This weekend John and I went to the Chateau Ste. Michelle winery, which is about 2-3 miles from our house. The place was pretty hoppin' with people taking tours and just generally enjoying the peaceful, well-kept grounds of the winery. John and I took a tour with our friends Santu and Anup, ended with a little wine tasting, bought tickets for a couple of their outdoor concerts this summer, and then signed up for their wine club. We have been wanting to sign up for the wine club for quite a while, since it's a good deal, the wine is tasty (we'll be getting 4 bottles per quarter), and after being a member for ~1.5 years you get free tickets to the outdoor concert the winery puts on for its "Connoisseur Club". John and I had the privilege of attending one of these concerts a couple years ago, and it was great fun. Anup's friend Matt, who used to work with Anup in IT at ImageX, had his sister's four tickets since she and her husband were out of town. A couple of Matt's friends cancelled at the last minute, so Anup invited us to go and we had a great time. Great music, picnic in the grass, and free wine made for a good combination.
Now, as it turns out, Matt's sister is married to a guy named Brad, who used to work with me in Sales at ImageX. Brad was kind of a golden boy, because he got deals with a lot of big accounts. Nobody in ops liked him and some argued that the way he got the accounts was by giving away the farm, but he seemed like a nice enough guy to me. A couple weeks ago I had an interview for a consulting position at Accenture, and I learned that my interviewer went to business school with Brad. And as chance would have it, we ran into Brad and his family at the winery last weekend. (Small world, huh?) They were picking up their wine shipment for the quarter and doing the free tastings of the selections that are offered. Brad said that he's been doing really well at a start-up, where he earns purely a percentage of sales. Reportedly, sales went from nothing to $35 million while Brad was there, so he is doing quite well right now. Brad was invited to the opportunity by a guy named Denis, who used to be the director of sales at ImageX.
In the car on the way home I related this story to John, and I mentioned the fact that I have a bad taste in my mouth about Denis because he is the person who prevented me from getting an outside sales job at ImageX. To give you some background info, I had come from outside sales at a different company and taken an inside sales position at ImageX because my outside experience was in a different industry. The verbal agreement was that I would move to outside sales once I had proven myself in inside sales. Well, suffice to say that I had more than proven myself in inside sales, but when I sat down with Denis to explain why I was ready for the transition, he made up some BS about how all outside salespeople at ImageX now have to have 20 years of print experience. I was furious. Fortunately for me, Denis "resigned" shortly thereafter and my new manager, Bob, put me on the outside sales team. My first quarter as an account manager, I was vindicated as the only salesperson to make quota.
Anyway, the whole situation between Brad and Denis is great. I'm glad it has worked out for both of them. But in my mind, it also highlights one of the ways that women are at a disadvantage in the business world. No doubt, Brad and Denis formed a tight bond at ImageX, spending lots of time together and having fun doing it. But culturally, this could not happen between a woman and a man. If I told John that I was going out golfing on a consistent basis with another man, it would seem very suspicious. While men could schedule a standing Tuesday night dinner appointment to talk about work stuff, or even drinks at the bar every Friday night, a woman and a man could not schedule those types of "bonding times" without people thinking they were having an affair. And with most positions of power in companies being held by men, this system is perpetuated in such a way that men stay at the top. (Because as we all know, business (and promotion) gets done because of relationships.)
posted by AKP at 10:25 AM
10 Comments:
I actually take offense to this! I wouldn't be suspicious if you went golfing repeatedly with someone else, man or women, unless you were deliberately trying to exclude me, not tell me about it, or in some other way hide what you were doing (which you have never done). So, in that case, you can rest assured, that at least *that* part of the system works!
John, I didn't mean to say that you are oversensitive. I'm sorry for offending you. But I think that if I were spending all day every Saturday golfing with a male co-worker for "business", I think you would see that as weird. (And none of the men I know who go golfing with each other invite their wives, so inviting you may seem inappropriate.) I would also think it was weird if you spent every Saturday golfing with a woman for "business".
Another thing you reminded me about is that it makes a difference if the woman is attractive or not. I am told that some men deliberately try NOT to develop close relationships with attractive women, again because of the suspicion factor. If the woman is unattractive, the man doesn't worry as much. So, does that mean that a woman in business should try to make herself as homely as possible to get ahead?
Dear Amy and John:
I commend you for discussing this matter openly. It is a fascinating subject. Must say, I'm with Amy on this one (surprise surprise). "Thou doth protest too much" or something like that...
Agree with the corporate world perpetuating the old ways-we have a social caste system! Face it! There is only so much to do, but that may just be enough.
Love,
Me, Me
Wow Amy what a small world! Yep I agree with you whole heartedly. It is different for a woman than a man in the working world. But then I question the integrity the individuals in question here have, knowing them I think they would do anything to move ahead.
ckh
I recently started working in a traditionally male-dominated field (IT) at a predominantly female-staffed company (American Girl). I am a married guy, 30 years old, with two young children. It's really interesting trying to navigate forming relationships with my new co-workers. Many of the people in the IT department are men, but most of the rest of the company are women, including our CEO. I guess I'm sort of in the reverse situation from you.
(came here from Listless)
Shad, I can totally picture your situation. Have you noticed that the women in the company seem to be able to form a tighter bond with each other than with you or other male co-workers? Do the people in the IT group tend to stick to themselves, or are they well-integrated within the org as far as relationships go?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
(Tried to correct a misspelling.)
Absolutely. The IT group serves the needs of the business. So, in many situations, I'll be the (lone male) technical resource in a meeting otherwise populated by women. Before one meeting recently, they were talking about how dialated they were upon first arriving to the hospital during their childbirths.
Wow, Shad, that is AWFUL. Even I find that line of discussion disgusting...And certainly inappropriate for work! It's so rude for them to start a conversation that they know not everyone in the room can participate in. It almost seems like they were trying to test the strength of your composure. Have you thought about looking for a different company to work at? Or do you feel comfortable enough within the IT group to let these types of things slide?
It was rather surreal. But, having attended the births of my two daughters, I was familiar with the material being discussed. At one point, I was actually contemplating getting into the conversation on my wife's behalf, but thought better of it. I try to come off as being one of the few people in the IT department with a (more or less) fully-formed set of social skills. The funny thing is that the birthing details didn't phase me a bit (been there, done that). What was awful was how some of them would occasionally remember that I was in the room and the ensuing false modesty.
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